Curse

MSecorsky · May 29, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Hi, lemme introduce myself: I am Mr. Cookiecutter Hater.
I enjoy FoW alot and use my main char there, my mesmer. Usually I am the only mesmer around in the european server. Before I got my KoaBD title, I hardly got invited or got ppl to join, but I must say I am more useful than any Renewal Nuker, SS or Tank around there. Reason why? 3 skills: Hex Eater Vortex, Shatter Hex and Backfire. I don't know if you'd like to know some builds for the mesmer, if so, I'd be happy to give some. Usually you can't go wrong with the Domination Line, Res Chant and Auspicious Incantion in your build. Also, if you're doing one of these lite areas again, gimme a whisper. My IGN is Nolani Blaze.
Greets, a fellow cookiemonster (I eat cookicutters)

A Brother of the Mind!

My mez uses those exact skills as well in FoW. It can cause massive damage. Mistrust is a good one to take in there as well, if you haven't, give it a shot.

Well met!

mazik · May 29, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

It's ArenaNet's fault that the cookie-cutters exist, not the players'.

And of course, Zinger can't be active in a thread without pointing out how all the flaws of this game, and life in general, are A-Net's fault.

On topic, if you want to try new builds and such, ok, but generally speaking cookie cutters do work faster and are easier to organize with PUGs. Not saying they are the best, but they are easier to organize with people you are unfamiliar with. Just do whatever if fun for you, and you can get to work....why are we even fighting about this?

Gregslot · May 29, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Everyone interested on participating and helping with a "out-side-of-the-box build" please go here and give you comments/suggetions

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...34#post2865834

I hope this doesnt get lost in these pages :/

Thank you for helping =]

Yichi · May 29, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

i think the thread maker is trying to label his vision of fun to everyone.

i understand that some ppl enjoy spending twice the time on a mission by playing with different builds. i know that there are ppl who care more for the experience of something than the reward. but don't try to apply that notion to everyone.

for example if i were obliged to play that way, i'd just look for a different game. my idea of fun is efficiency. if i can do something in 1 hour for the same reward as doing it in 2, i'll have a lot of fun being efficient. i seriously enjoy getting something with the least amount of effort and many other ppl feel the same way too.

remember there are different types of ppl and u can't say something is fun for everyone.

You win

12 chars....

englitdaudelin · May 29, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Would you rather complete The Deep in 2 hours with a well-crafted group or complete the Deep in 5+ hours with a lackadascial group?

I choose choice C or D:

C. Get in a lacksadaisical group and at least SEE a couple of rooms of The Deep in an hour or two before my kids call me back to real life, instead of being entirely excluded because I don't fit that build

D. Find alliance mates who will take you and some heroes, and combine with choice C.

Tiny Killer · May 29, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Prove it.

You think you can demand things of me? I find that very humorous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Give an example of a build and a scenario where a non-cookie cutter build would be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, superior to a cookie cutter build.

Based on many of your previous posts, I do not have enough time in this life to explain to you how a non cookie-cutter build would work. You will have to learn game mechanics from another source.

Amy Awien · May 30, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian

Why oh why oh why should or would anyone bother to use anything else than the very best and fastest one available?

But, as in the past, the current 'cookie-cutter' build is not the best. It never is.

And what is the best build? There is no objective and universal set of criteria that would enable one to compare builds and determine which build is better then another, let alone which is 'the best'.

zwei2stein · May 30, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiny Killer

You think you can demand things of me? I find that very humorous.

Based on many of your previous posts, I do not have enough time in this life to explain to you how a non cookie-cutter build would work. You will have to learn game mechanics from another source.

So, you rather insult than prove your point? GG, you succed in internets.

Show us decent noncookie build that would make someone want to kick cookie person from party to get you inside, i dare you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

But, as in the past, the current 'cookie-cutter' build is not the best. It never is.

And what is the best build? There is no objective and universal set of criteria that would enable one to compare builds and determine which build is better then another, let alone which is 'the best'.

No, of course, every build can use improvements.

We even had noncookie builds prevail some times (MM+SS necroes taking over nuker duty in SF and then prety much everywhere.).

But guess what? they became hated cookies at exact moment they because sussecfull.

Thats it, cookie haters are quite strange bunch - they praise builds for being effective and cool because they are not used by anyone, but once theese builds get recognized for their power and widely used they become hated asap.

So, anti cookies, put your build forward! i dare you.

You will either get laughted at.
Or your build will be awesome and you will start to hate it immediatelly.

It's kinda loose-loose situation, eh.

Gregslot · May 30, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Yes, but if we have two cookie cutters then we will have a larger variety of builds, wich is what we are trying to prove.
If the build i posted succeeds then all classes will be able to play in there. So it will be available to all (considering that the players are capable of chinging builds, heh)

So please, check the build and give you opinion and suggestions about it.
(wtf? you want to do this or not?)

Here is the link... again...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...34#post2865834

Amy Awien · May 30, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Thats it, cookie haters are quite strange bunch - they praise builds for being effective and cool because they are not used by anyone, but once theese builds get recognized for their power and widely used they become hated asap.

Well, no, not exactly. There aren't any 'cookie' haters, just people who enjoy playing around with different builds and with enough inspiration and creativity to experiment with builds themselves. And they do not hate cookies, they just don't like it when the uninspired cookie lusers expect them to use these overused cookies again and again and again. That is just so boring, like chewing gum for too long.

Gregslot · May 30, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Well, no, not exactly. There aren't any 'cookie' haters, just people who enjoy playing around with different builds and with enough inspiration and creativity to experiment with builds themselves. And they do not hate cookies, they just don't like it when the uninspired cookie lusers expect them to use these overused cookies again and again and again. That is just so boring, like chewing gum for too long.

Holy crap, you can put my thoughts into words.
I can only draw some of them O.o
Hahahaaha

Check the build people:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...34#post2865834

PLEASE!

i like cake

Mylon · May 30, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyral

I still find it amusing to take my Ritualist down to the Deep to try to join a PuG group. It is almost invariably impossible. Even after posting the 6 Man Deep build on guildwiki (now, in unedited form on PvXwiki) I still couldn't get anybody to take a ritualist seriously down there. Yet my guild doesn't ever run without one. Today I was told by every PuG in a team I joined that my warrior needed Recall. I was trying a new trick to replace Recall and it works _flawlessly_. Yet the only reason that I didn't get booted from the team was that I was the leader of it. Our current 9 man HM build (still being optimized) uses a Ritualist _and_ a Paragon. Try finding a paragon in any other group. Yet we still make the run as fast or faster than any build containing elementalists (we don't use any) and at the beginning Room 2 clears itself _without_ needing to be rescued. The difference between our build and the cookie cutter builds is synergy. With synergy comes efficiency and speed. And its a lot of fun to play.

Have room for another on one of your runs? This does sound like fun. I really don't understand why people are so in love with Elementalists, considering how gimped their damage is versus high level targets. I'd rather trust a Mesmer or a necro with armor ignoring damage.

Superdarth · May 30, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

I dont know about you, but i feel unconfortable by seeing people giving this bad image of the game for newcomers.

I would be more worried by the fact that that that bad image is deserved and 100% true.

You are right, there is no fun in it and players no longer play for fun, for that reason i dont want anything to do with them unless i need money. (And when i say need i dont mean that latest 100k weapon wich is so not worth the money)

Yol · May 30, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Up until a few months ago, I didn't care about cookie cutter builds.....I have a ranger set up for tombs teams that then became a splinter barrager, so it would be hypocritical to knock them I guess. However, I started to become really disappointed with cookie cutter builds when I started doing AB, specifically finding that every Luxon team I was fighting was made up entirely of CC builds. As an elem, it made me start to think about new builds for dealing damage that didn't rely on met shower, searing flames or sandstorm, and could withstand all those annoying CC assassins. My joy came when I finally came up with a build that can solo cap shrines in AB (except warrior and monk shrines, for some reason) and withstand CC assassin attacks......seeing sins run away because they hadn't killed me in a matter of seconds was most gratifying.

I guess CC builds have their place (certainly in PVE), but it doesn't mean they should be the be-all and end-all of game play, and their fame also makes them open to counters in PvP if you're prepared to do a bit of experimenting. My next target is an anti-MM elem.

Gregslot · May 30, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Just did a run at Urgoz with the assassin i suggested for The Deep. The team consisted in a Warrior (tank), myself (assassin), mesmer (dunno what it was), 2 ritualists (one channeling and one communing),2 fire nukers, 2 monks, 2 necros (blood and bip) a ranger and something else.
We were doing as good as the B/P teams, we had no problem on tanking, dealing damage, healing... everything was fine.
But unfortunately 4 had to leave during the run and then we just gave up. Couldnt pass by the wardens without a tank and ritualists

Bryant Again · May 30, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Cookie-cut builds are proof that Guild Wars PvE takes little to no skill to beat. That's my only real complaint against them.

Pwny Ride · May 30, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Us cookiecutters want to win Greg. It's a concept you may not understand. You see i too play mesmer in PvE, she's my main, but i actually took the initiative and say....tried something different, which is how i got my Ranger, Elementalist, Dervish and Necromancer, and i enjoy them all, throughy.

Cookiecutting is the way to go in Elite areas. Builds like Echo SF nukers where designed to get the job done in the most efficient way possible, and they do that, better than a mesmer could. ever.

Be unique where it actually matters, PvP. You can actually show off there and get noticed for it. And take this coming from someone who despised cookiecutters (actually despised water magic all together, but fire gives me a reason to spam fireballs like a tard

) once a long time ago.

So Greg, suck it up.

Njaiguni Blaze · May 30, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Cookie-cut builds are proof that Guild Wars PvE takes little to no skill to beat. That's my only real complaint against them.

Try Hard Mode

Also, CC builds are not PvE only. PvP is crawling with them. Especially HA, which is basically CC only.

Rockby Quickfoot · May 30, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

I've played a Mesmer as my first and main character, and I've always wanted to try these elite missions. I don't really play any other characters, just my Mesmer. I've been to Urgoz's Warren twice with some guildies, first time we failed, the next I got disconnected. Never got to see the Deep, only very small parts of the Underworld, and none of the Fissure of Woe (which I've always been quite interested in seeing firsthand!). I've always wanted to get the Domain of Anguish done and off my quest log too (done every other quest besides that one) I suppose lack of the Underworld and Fissure is mostly due to lack of favor.

Another thing is, I don't want to go down there and farm. Just isn't fun for me. I want to do the quests. I've done all the other quests, and finishing these would help round of my experience. Unfortunately, everyone seems to use them for farming these days. If anyone wants to actually play in these areas, do contact me.

~Rockby Quickfoot

Krazi Bastid · May 30, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

ppl need to remember that these elite missions are long. maybe its not that hard to do and its mindless clicking of buttons or watever. regardless, it still takes time to do. pretty sure no one wants to take a chance on a creative/original/out of the box build and get to 50% of the mission and not complete it. as it is now, these cookie cutter builds are the standard. theyre a set skillbar that anyone can jus ping and ppl will be like ok cool. if someone joins a group and pings some unknown bar, dont be upset that they dont want to risk a 2hour run to experiment if ur build works. maybe it does work or watever but when it comes down to it, its a choice of "100percent proven that it works (the cc build)" or the "MAYBE it works, i only have the players word and i dont know him" creative build. i see a paragon tank in doa sometimes. im sure ppl called him noob and hated on him cus he was paragon. but i was in a group with him, and he tanked like a champ. so, now his build is proven that it works. so now im sure ppl wont jus ragekick him. im not a creative dude. i use simple build. speedboost on skill1, selfheal on 7, res on 8. 2-6 are some defense and/or attack skills. for those elite missions, i use a cc build cus it works and i am too lazy/dumb to make my own.